http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ A place to discuss all kinds of stuff! en Fri, 19 Mar 2010 12:41:25 +0000 http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more/page/2#post-12025 Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:43:51 +0000 fglrx 12025@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p><blockquote>She thinks in both.</blockquote><br /> Yeah, after the latest videos I see clearly that she does a lot of code-switching in her verbal thinking. Sometimes she can easier express something with the English language structures, sometimes with the Russian ones. But her mental models, therefore also the deep structure of the language she uses, are becoming more and more American. I noticed a larger influence of English on her Russian (semantic and pragmatic changes) than in reverse (rather phonetic and some syntactic changes). So she is assimilating into the environment she lives in. That&#39;s very good. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more/page/2#post-12023 Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:39:30 +0000 Captain Jack 12023@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>She thinks in both. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more/page/2#post-12020 Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:23:45 +0000 3rabnar 12020@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>ty dear </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more/page/2#post-11706 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:58:36 +0000 echo 11706@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>Looks like she thinks in English more:<br /> <a href="http://www.hotforwords.com/2008/05/05/molotov-cocktail/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hotforwords.com/2008/05/05/molotov-cocktail/</a><br /> She says &quot;Для особого кредита&quot;(for extra credit) - I don&#39;t know any usage of word &quot;credit&quot; in this context<br /> and it is better to ask her </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more/page/2#post-11539 Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:06:04 +0000 muggins 11539@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj4y0EUlU-Y&amp;feature=related#t=01m37s">Not everybody thinks the same.</a> </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more/page/2#post-10098 Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:10:41 +0000 Greatest Potential 10098@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>When humans vocalize language they&#39;re hearing it backwards too. The human brain encodes language forward and reverse through a process called &quot;pareidolia&quot;</p> <p>In anatomical drawings the human brain stem can be viewed as a trilateral brainstem or bit map version of &quot;three-tone sinusoidal replica&quot; (perception of speech patterns within the subsconcious mind) </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more/page/2#post-10097 Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:44:31 +0000 fglrx 10097@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p><blockquote>has said that she is not very good at either language</blockquote><br /> Apropos that, today I listened to an interesting lecture under the title of &#39;Lifelong Bilingualism: Linguistic Costs, Cognitive Benefits, and Long-Term Consequences&#39;. When we compare the group averages, people who speaks equally fluently two languages have a slower access to the vocabulary (in comparison with monolinguals - but also if the same person uses one language intensively, accessibility of words in the other decreases temporarily - that was examined also using EEG <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event-related_potential">event-related potentials</a>) in both of them and strong interference between the languages (due to coactivation of verbal representations of things in both languages at the same time), but it has also a very positive side - it results in a stronger <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_functions">cognitive control</a> (e.g. initiating appropriate actions and inhibiting inappropriate actions)- it develops the prefrontal cortex. Even within the group of elder people with dementia, the onset of the disorder occured 6 years later in the bilingual people than in the monolinguals. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-10074 Thu, 03 Sep 2009 02:10:22 +0000 Anonymous 10074@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>I wonder why the US did not make it mandatory to teach another language in school.? </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-10063 Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:35:27 +0000 Captain Jack 10063@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>I would venture to say she sub vocalizes in both languages. She started to learn English when she was 7. She has said that she is not very good at either language, though we know that&#39;s false. We are our worst critics. </p> <p>Though all this is just speculation until Marina finds this page and tells us what language she sub vocalizes in. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-10057 Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:45:15 +0000 fglrx 10057@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>Attending an international conference today, I epically failed with my pseudo-skills in English, I wasn&#39;t able to response to a very basic question. I got petrified and stuttered some gibberish. Damn. Every foreing language is just an overlay not inbuilt in a core of consciousness and it may always fail. The real-time usage surpasses my quasi-skills. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-10050 Wed, 02 Sep 2009 07:06:45 +0000 Anonymous 10050@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>That is wow, along way to drive. Nice if you do not mind driving though. &lt;img src=&quot;http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/bb-plugins/bb-smilies/default/icon_wink.gif&quot; title=&quot;:wink:&quot; class=&quot;bb_smilies&quot; /&gt; </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-10022 Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:21:21 +0000 Greatest Potential 10022@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>My sis worked for a blind man. She basically did office stuff like taking care of his appointments and doing paper work. She did that for several years until she found a job that was closer to where she was living at the time. I don&#39;t know how she did that job for so long. She would have to drive 60 miles there, then 60 back again, every day. 120 miles and wear and tear on her car. I doubt I could do that, I wouldn&#39;t care to. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-10021 Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:17:21 +0000 Anonymous 10021@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>I am glad they have something like that now. I think it would be hard to deal with being blind, and am thankful I have my sight. I learned some sign language so I could talk to friends who are deaf, but if I ever went blind, nice to know they have come far in terms of helping the blind. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-10015 Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:32:52 +0000 Greatest Potential 10015@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INCGzuehIL0&amp;feature=related">Braille Graffiti</a> </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9954 Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:25:09 +0000 633squadron 9954@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>If one could not speak French, one would say &quot;Je ne peut pas parler francais&quot;, although a great idiom to use is &quot;je parle francais comme une vache espagnol&quot; (I speak French like a Spanish cow). Or you could say &quot;Mon francais, c&#39;est zero!&quot;</p> <p>I observe, though, that facility for language varies from person to person, that a<br /> language is easier to learn the younger one starts, and that the proper *accent* is nearly impossible to learn once one is in the midst of puberty.</p> <p>The last one may sound weird, but it&#39;s been proven. Our brains apparently start to change, and our instinctive pronunciations change. This may be particularly frustrating for French speakers! It also explains why some immigrants to the US speak English with an American accent, while others never quite lose their native accent, even within the same *family*.</p> <p>I think it&#39;s pointless to argue which language is &quot;easiest&quot; to learn. Someone from China may find that English is difficult to get right, while an American may find Japanese particularly difficult to master. Why? Well, Chinese has much simpler rules for grammar, particularly tenses and declensions. Even for English, it&#39;s hard to get all the grammar to come out right all the time, if you&#39;re always translating in your head first.</p> <p>For an American, the grammar and perhaps even the writing for Japanese is not impossible, but the usage is fraught with peril. I think that the Japanese language is more intimately bound up in the culture than almost any other language, and without knowing the culture one is bound to make a mistake. Because of the culture, that mistake will offend most people, or at least leave them with the conviction that you, like all Americans, are barbarians (in the classic definition of that word). With luck, you might have somewhat close Japanese friends who will giggle in embarrassment, but they probably won&#39;t correct you, even if you ask.</p> <p>A final note: If you go to France, learn a bit of French even if you pronounce it like a Spanish cow. Then use it. The French always love those who appreciate them enough to *try* to speak French. If you get back a blizzard of words, just say &quot;Pardonnez-moi?&quot; </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9938 Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:53:38 +0000 Anonymous 9938@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>Just wondring bout sign language. How is that working for Marinas book? I do have some friends who do are blind so... </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9926 Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:55:39 +0000 muggins 9926@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p><blockquote>And what is in fact the oldest language? </blockquote></p> <p>The oldest dead language was probably never written down, going back an estimated 100,000 years. I&#39;ve read that the oldest living language is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_language">Tamil</a>, Old Tamil goes back to 300BC, but modern Tamil started around 1600AD. There are those who argue that both Greek, Sanskrit and Chinese were first written down about 1500BC. The Sumerians and the Egyptians, go back 30 centuries or 3,000 years, wrote their languages down, but they&#39;re not spoken today. I&#39;m not certain about any of this<br /> data, since I got it off of various sites on the internet. It appears that there<br /> is controversy on the topic. By <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_language">oldest language</a>, do you mean the oldest living language, or the oldest written language, or the language with the oldest roots? </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9860 Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:45:15 +0000 Anonymous 9860@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>And what is infact the oldest language? </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9849 Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:15:39 +0000 fglrx 9849@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>Romance languages? Hard to believe. I had to learn French for few years and I&#39;ve learned nothing. Je ne parle pas Français du tout. It was too difficult for me. Articles depending on gender, difficult spelling, sophisticated tenses with inflection of verbs. Learning French at school was a horror. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9847 Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:38:41 +0000 muggins 9847@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>English simple? I hope not. I mean, it&#39;s a struggle for me and it&#39;s the only language I speak. I&#39;ve heard that the Romance languages are much easier than English. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9844 Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:40:31 +0000 fglrx 9844@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>Japanese would be easier than e.g. Hungarian if wasn&#39;t written with these horrible kanjis. I don&#39;t believe in the revelation from Wikipedia about the hardest languages, many languages are much more difficult to speak and understand from hearing than Japanese, but if it comes to write and read, it&#39;s very possible that Japanese is the most sophisticated one.</p> <p>Is English the simplest language to learn in the world - what d&#39;ya think? </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9842 Fri, 28 Aug 2009 02:44:36 +0000 muggins 9842@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>The most difficult 1st language for infants to pick up is Korean. The 5 most difficult 2nd languages for an adult to pick up are Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean...the hardest being Japanese.<br /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardest_language" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardest_language</a> </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9840 Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:22:11 +0000 Anonymous 9840@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>So, out of curiosity, what is the hardest language to learn? </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9713 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:01:42 +0000 Greatest Potential 9713@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>@Evan</p> <p>Alright, perhaps it is an interesting question after all.</p> <p><blockquote>Are there some of us whose thoughts are filled not with words, but rather with images and non-verbalized ideas?</blockquote></p> <p>An idea that there are two hemispheres of the brain and that a person may choose to use one hemisphere over the other (predominant hemisphere) raises questions as to how people perceive language.</p> <p>Some will ask &quot;Are words pictures, or are pictures simply images and therefore should not to be confused with the worded language&quot;(?) etc. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9710 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:24:58 +0000 Chemikal 9710@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>I think an interpretation of this question would be, which language is closer to her?<br /> Because language is merely a tool for expressing yourself. And naturally you will choose the tool that is closest to you. You don&#39;t walk half way across the room for a different tool, right?<br /> There was a time while I was learning English, when I was speaking in both tongues. Of course that sounds silly, and it is. But silly was accepted at that age, so I went with it.<br /> I used to say one or two sentences in English, then switch back to Romanian. I guess that happened because it was easier for me to think of the English version of what I wanted to say, without realizing it.</p> <p>It&#39;s something that goes beyond conscious thought. And I&#39;ll close by adding, that sometimes, I dream in English... Now who can clarify that? &lt;img src=&quot;http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/bb-plugins/bb-smilies/default/icon_smile.gif&quot; title=&quot;:-)&quot; class=&quot;bb_smilies&quot; /&gt; </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9709 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:11:01 +0000 Chemikal 9709@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>@alex referring to one&#39;s thought process... you must be right there, because otherwise that would mean that deaf and mute people are incapable of coherent thoughts. Which is obviously not the case. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9708 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:08:08 +0000 Chemikal 9708@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>As a direct answer to fglrx, I&#39;d say that in speech, it would be more of a hassle to try to formulate in two different languages, then just trying to give voice to your thoughts in English.</p> <p>I&#39;m answering out of my own experience, though of course Marina&#39;s experience may vary.<br /> In writing it&#39;s a slightly different story, because then you have time to analyze what you&#39;re saying before saying it. In writing you don&#39;t stutter, you don&#39;t have slips or blanks, because you have two vocabularies at your disposal to think and formulate your ideas in.</p> <p>As a conclusion, I think only when one fails, the other language comes into play in the thought process, in order to accurately express something. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9707 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:47:35 +0000 Evan Owen 9707@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>An interesting question is emerging from the initial question about Marina: it&#39;s not &quot;in what language do we think&quot; but &quot;do we all think in language?&quot; Are there some of us whose thoughts are filled not with words, but rather with images and non-verbalized ideas? Is it perhaps faster, more effective to think in this manner, rather than being hampered by parsing out one&#39;s thoughts word by word? Is this what Zen masters are talking about: &quot;Show me the man who has forgotten words?&quot;</p> <p>@Kentg: I once met a Danish woman in Bulgaria who spoke little English, but we quickly determined that we both spoke Spanish. After a few minutes of chatting, the thought struck me that we were both thinking and conversing in a language native to neither of us; and that this is an everyday experience for Europeans, but rare for Americans (like me). </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9706 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:29:03 +0000 kentg 9706@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>I&#39;m from Denmark, and in Denmark we speak danish, but at a time, when I was chatting a lot with people from other countries in english, I did actually think of daily stuff and actions in english. Only recently I&#39;ve been used to think danish again, so to say. It must be said that I&#39;ve never been outside of Denmark or spoken english, besides of english class. </p> <p>Translation: I guess, Marina would be thinking english, since she speaks it everyday, writes english on the blog, and she work with/studies the english words. </p> http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/topic/in-which-language-does-marina-think-more#post-9705 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:26:20 +0000 leoNard 9705@http://www.hotforwords.com/forums/ <p>I forgot how to think....the simulation of HOTFORWORDS is my STIMULATION: like what diversity is the governing government of USA???University is the spelling!!! </p>