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In which language does Marina think more?

(37 posts)
  1. fglrx
    Member

    It's a very interesting question. What do you think, which language, English, Russian or a mix of both, does Marina use to think about daily issues?

    And in general, how is it about language used in mental processing by people who are bilingual or who just have used a foreign language in a new living place everyday for years? Marina is a very interesting case to examine this problem as she has not only lived in the USA for years, but also works with the English language.

    Does she now use English in thinking about everything or does she switch the languages depending on a subject of thinking?

    What do you think or know about that?

    Posted 6 months ago #
  2. Greatest Potential
    Member

    Since Russian is her first language I'd imagine that's her primary go to language and then going and combining that with English language and all it's intricacies.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  3. i don't think that anyone really thinks in a particular (natural) language, such as english, russian, etc.

    if anyone thinks that each and everybody's mental processes or "thoughts" which lead to other mental and physical entities like utterances and so on, or even ultimately actions, occur in a particular language, then they'll have to explain how, say, deaf-mutes, people with certain other aphasic impairments, or people who have never been taught a language, (are able to) think. as i see it, the consequence of that opinion would be that those people simply cannot think. which is ridiculous.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  4. Greatest Potential
    Member

    Marina has mentioned she likes getting up Sunday morning to do crossword puzzles. Not sure which newspaper(s) she chooses for crosswords, or magazine(s) etc.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  5. Evan Owen
    Member

    I suspect by now Marina thinks primarily in English. She's been here several years, immersed in American English; I was in Wales less than two weeks in an immersion course when I began thinking in Welsh.

    Interesting remark from äläx, whose first language (I believe) is German. It's contrary to how I think, which is definitely in words (not always English). Perhaps some people think without words, as he suggests.

    I think in my second language (Spanish) when conversing in it -- and find it an effort to switch back to English.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  6. Greatest Potential
    Member

    "In which language does Marina think more?"

    Can you honestly say you really understand what is being asked here(?)

    The question is vague

    What I actually find interesting is the emphasis which is placed on the question asked by fglrx as being "very interesting"

    Fine then, she thinks in a thinking language like most thinking thinkers think

    Posted 6 months ago #
  7. muggins
    Member

    What language does Marina mutter to herself when she's cut off on the freeway?
    What language does she use to make out her shopping list? I was working with
    a Puerto Rican woman, and I asked her what language she thought in. She didn't
    answer. I think most thoughts are done without language. Like playing music.
    You don't think of the name of the notes or chords you're playing, you just play
    them. You might identify what key you're in. Later on, when you want to talk it over, or write it down on paper, you can think about the names of notes and chords.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  8. leoNard
    Member

    I forgot how to think....the simulation of HOTFORWORDS is my STIMULATION: like what diversity is the governing government of USA???University is the spelling!!!

    Posted 6 months ago #
  9. kentg
    Member

    I'm from Denmark, and in Denmark we speak danish, but at a time, when I was chatting a lot with people from other countries in english, I did actually think of daily stuff and actions in english. Only recently I've been used to think danish again, so to say. It must be said that I've never been outside of Denmark or spoken english, besides of english class.

    Translation: I guess, Marina would be thinking english, since she speaks it everyday, writes english on the blog, and she work with/studies the english words.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  10. Evan Owen
    Member

    An interesting question is emerging from the initial question about Marina: it's not "in what language do we think" but "do we all think in language?" Are there some of us whose thoughts are filled not with words, but rather with images and non-verbalized ideas? Is it perhaps faster, more effective to think in this manner, rather than being hampered by parsing out one's thoughts word by word? Is this what Zen masters are talking about: "Show me the man who has forgotten words?"

    @Kentg: I once met a Danish woman in Bulgaria who spoke little English, but we quickly determined that we both spoke Spanish. After a few minutes of chatting, the thought struck me that we were both thinking and conversing in a language native to neither of us; and that this is an everyday experience for Europeans, but rare for Americans (like me).

    Posted 6 months ago #
  11. Chemikal
    Member

    As a direct answer to fglrx, I'd say that in speech, it would be more of a hassle to try to formulate in two different languages, then just trying to give voice to your thoughts in English.

    I'm answering out of my own experience, though of course Marina's experience may vary.
    In writing it's a slightly different story, because then you have time to analyze what you're saying before saying it. In writing you don't stutter, you don't have slips or blanks, because you have two vocabularies at your disposal to think and formulate your ideas in.

    As a conclusion, I think only when one fails, the other language comes into play in the thought process, in order to accurately express something.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  12. Chemikal
    Member

    @alex referring to one's thought process... you must be right there, because otherwise that would mean that deaf and mute people are incapable of coherent thoughts. Which is obviously not the case.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  13. Chemikal
    Member

    I think an interpretation of this question would be, which language is closer to her?
    Because language is merely a tool for expressing yourself. And naturally you will choose the tool that is closest to you. You don't walk half way across the room for a different tool, right?
    There was a time while I was learning English, when I was speaking in both tongues. Of course that sounds silly, and it is. But silly was accepted at that age, so I went with it.
    I used to say one or two sentences in English, then switch back to Romanian. I guess that happened because it was easier for me to think of the English version of what I wanted to say, without realizing it.

    It's something that goes beyond conscious thought. And I'll close by adding, that sometimes, I dream in English... Now who can clarify that?

    Posted 6 months ago #
  14. Greatest Potential
    Member

    @Evan

    Alright, perhaps it is an interesting question after all.

    Are there some of us whose thoughts are filled not with words, but rather with images and non-verbalized ideas?

    An idea that there are two hemispheres of the brain and that a person may choose to use one hemisphere over the other (predominant hemisphere) raises questions as to how people perceive language.

    Some will ask "Are words pictures, or are pictures simply images and therefore should not to be confused with the worded language"(?) etc.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  15. Anonymous

    So, out of curiosity, what is the hardest language to learn?

    Posted 6 months ago #
  16. muggins
    Member

    The most difficult 1st language for infants to pick up is Korean. The 5 most difficult 2nd languages for an adult to pick up are Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean...the hardest being Japanese.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardest_language

    Posted 6 months ago #
  17. fglrx
    Member

    Japanese would be easier than e.g. Hungarian if wasn't written with these horrible kanjis. I don't believe in the revelation from Wikipedia about the hardest languages, many languages are much more difficult to speak and understand from hearing than Japanese, but if it comes to write and read, it's very possible that Japanese is the most sophisticated one.

    Is English the simplest language to learn in the world - what d'ya think?

    Posted 6 months ago #
  18. muggins
    Member

    English simple? I hope not. I mean, it's a struggle for me and it's the only language I speak. I've heard that the Romance languages are much easier than English.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  19. fglrx
    Member

    Romance languages? Hard to believe. I had to learn French for few years and I've learned nothing. Je ne parle pas Français du tout. It was too difficult for me. Articles depending on gender, difficult spelling, sophisticated tenses with inflection of verbs. Learning French at school was a horror.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  20. Anonymous

    And what is infact the oldest language?

    Posted 6 months ago #
  21. muggins
    Member

    And what is in fact the oldest language?

    The oldest dead language was probably never written down, going back an estimated 100,000 years. I've read that the oldest living language is Tamil, Old Tamil goes back to 300BC, but modern Tamil started around 1600AD. There are those who argue that both Greek, Sanskrit and Chinese were first written down about 1500BC. The Sumerians and the Egyptians, go back 30 centuries or 3,000 years, wrote their languages down, but they're not spoken today. I'm not certain about any of this
    data, since I got it off of various sites on the internet. It appears that there
    is controversy on the topic. By oldest language, do you mean the oldest living language, or the oldest written language, or the language with the oldest roots?

    Posted 6 months ago #
  22. Anonymous

    Just wondring bout sign language. How is that working for Marinas book? I do have some friends who do are blind so...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  23. 633squadron
    Member

    If one could not speak French, one would say "Je ne peut pas parler francais", although a great idiom to use is "je parle francais comme une vache espagnol" (I speak French like a Spanish cow). Or you could say "Mon francais, c'est zero!"

    I observe, though, that facility for language varies from person to person, that a
    language is easier to learn the younger one starts, and that the proper *accent* is nearly impossible to learn once one is in the midst of puberty.

    The last one may sound weird, but it's been proven. Our brains apparently start to change, and our instinctive pronunciations change. This may be particularly frustrating for French speakers! It also explains why some immigrants to the US speak English with an American accent, while others never quite lose their native accent, even within the same *family*.

    I think it's pointless to argue which language is "easiest" to learn. Someone from China may find that English is difficult to get right, while an American may find Japanese particularly difficult to master. Why? Well, Chinese has much simpler rules for grammar, particularly tenses and declensions. Even for English, it's hard to get all the grammar to come out right all the time, if you're always translating in your head first.

    For an American, the grammar and perhaps even the writing for Japanese is not impossible, but the usage is fraught with peril. I think that the Japanese language is more intimately bound up in the culture than almost any other language, and without knowing the culture one is bound to make a mistake. Because of the culture, that mistake will offend most people, or at least leave them with the conviction that you, like all Americans, are barbarians (in the classic definition of that word). With luck, you might have somewhat close Japanese friends who will giggle in embarrassment, but they probably won't correct you, even if you ask.

    A final note: If you go to France, learn a bit of French even if you pronounce it like a Spanish cow. Then use it. The French always love those who appreciate them enough to *try* to speak French. If you get back a blizzard of words, just say "Pardonnez-moi?"

    Posted 6 months ago #
  24. Greatest Potential
    Member

    Braille Graffiti

    Posted 6 months ago #
  25. Anonymous

    I am glad they have something like that now. I think it would be hard to deal with being blind, and am thankful I have my sight. I learned some sign language so I could talk to friends who are deaf, but if I ever went blind, nice to know they have come far in terms of helping the blind.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  26. Greatest Potential
    Member

    My sis worked for a blind man. She basically did office stuff like taking care of his appointments and doing paper work. She did that for several years until she found a job that was closer to where she was living at the time. I don't know how she did that job for so long. She would have to drive 60 miles there, then 60 back again, every day. 120 miles and wear and tear on her car. I doubt I could do that, I wouldn't care to.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  27. Anonymous

    That is wow, along way to drive. Nice if you do not mind driving though.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  28. fglrx
    Member

    Attending an international conference today, I epically failed with my pseudo-skills in English, I wasn't able to response to a very basic question. I got petrified and stuttered some gibberish. Damn. Every foreing language is just an overlay not inbuilt in a core of consciousness and it may always fail. The real-time usage surpasses my quasi-skills.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  29. Captain Jack
    Moderator

    I would venture to say she sub vocalizes in both languages. She started to learn English when she was 7. She has said that she is not very good at either language, though we know that's false. We are our worst critics.

    Though all this is just speculation until Marina finds this page and tells us what language she sub vocalizes in.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  30. Anonymous

    I wonder why the US did not make it mandatory to teach another language in school.?

    Posted 6 months ago #

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