Pennsyltucky9 and I have a conversation going about canoeing in the comments below the Fathers Day Lesson. We are bringing it over here in case anyone else is into River Sports.
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River Sports -- Canoeing, Kayaking, Rafting
(37 posts)-
fromvikingstock
MemberPosted 4 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
Member*
fromvikingstock says:
70.2.1
June 23, 2009 at 11:50 pmThanks @pennsyltucky9,
Father’s Day for me was a canoe trip.
Here’s how it started:
http://twitvid.io/abTFAnd here’s some Father’s Day morning music from Beck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNgA38SZ3jsHow did you spend Father’s Day?
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o
pennsyltucky9 says:
70.2.1.1
June 24, 2009 at 1:50 amSweet! Thanks for posting that, fromvikingstock. Hope you were able to avoid the [thalwegs], branches and underwater snags.
Areas that rarely flood can be way hazardous sometimes. That looked cool, though. Thanks for posting the links, I enjoyed them both.
I love creekin’ in my canoe! We have some real nice high tides around the full and new moon in midwinter and midsummer that raise the levels in all the creeks here on the west coast by several feet.
I like to use an incoming tide to help push me upstream for quite a distance, then hang for awhile and use an outgoing tide to get back. Makes for fun camping and day-tripping. And, although there is always some degree of risk in any boating experience it follows a nice predictable pattern. That’s something every captain can appreciate. Creekin’ SO rules.
On Father’s Day I shared an old canoe voyage DVD with my pop (taped in 2001). We watched it simultaneously while talking together on the phone since he’s pretty far away.
Make sure you keep a spare paddle in the boat, FVS. If you don’t have one, get one. If you can’t get one, you may have one of mine. Others are depending on you.
Peace.
-p9
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fromvikingstock says:
70.2.1.1.1
June 24, 2009 at 9:49 amMy Sunday canoe ride was an adventure you would appreciate, p9. I learned not to take cameras on canoes, so here is a day-after video retrospective of the trip, shot Monday by the Huron River.
Canoe trip video retrospective. The day after…All good things to those who canoe.
— FVS –
o
pennsyltucky9 says:
70.2.1.2
June 25, 2009 at 2:37 amWow, what an epic!
Now you know why I like coastal living so much: I can do it all solo (if I so choose) and with just 1 car because the tidal flow at sea level provides assistance in either direction eventually. Plus, we have salt marshes full of interesting wildlife and and endless beautiful scenery. But don’t get lost in one and let the tide go out before you find your way back.
It’s all in the timing.But even where I’m miles and miles upriver, away from the tidal influence, I’ve often found that I can pick my way quite a distance upstream if I avoid the main current channels and stick to the quieter pools and eddies around the banks, sometimes crossing over to the opposite side to access a calm area when necessary.
If you find the right spot on a river (a section that’s not as steep) or wait until the flow is suitable for such an activity, you’ll see that it’s often possible to go several miles in the canoe without having to use 2 cars. But never assume you can paddle back upstream after you’ve allowed the river to take you down a ways. I always paddle upstream first, going as far as I’m able, then I clunk back down to the car. Heck, I already feel guilty using the car just to haul my boat to the put-in.
You’re so right that it’s hard to control the boat when the current is going faster than you are. In fact, it’s impossible to accomplish much else besides limping over toward the bank. Unless I’m facing upstream, I prefer to move faster than the current because otherwise I just can’t steer, and that means I’m at the stream’s mercy and can’t control which part to use when the stream makes a bend.
I never want to be too close to the outside of the turn and be run up against the bank, nor is it preferable to stray too close to the inside of the turn because it’s shallow there, so you run into snags, bars, and shoals. You’ll get the nose entangled in an underwater snag or sandbar, and the next thing you know the current’s pushing your tail out into the deep, fast part. Then you’re going sideways or backwards downstream before you can even blink. Hate when that happens!
“Sweeper” branches and inundated trees are another matter entirely. If you see them coming in time (from far enough upstream) to reposition yourself so they can be avoided, you’re golden.
But the faster the current, the less calculation time you get for this critical analysis because you need to be moving faster than the current in order to steer at all.
If the current is swift, you must paddle hard to get ahead of it AND reposition your boat laterally in the stream (change lanes, so to speak) so they’re no longer directly in your way. And you have to do it enough ahead of time to get ready for whatever’s coming up next. While it might get you past the dreaded sweeper, this may result in going a little too fast to successfully negotiate any hairpins or rocks, sills, or other boaters (Goddess forbid!) below the difficulty, however.
A sill is an obstruction (like a log) running roughly perpendicular to the current just below the surface. Because the keel of a canoe is linear like an arrow (as opposed to a wide, square, flat-bottom boat, raft, etc.) it will always roll to one side or the other when going over a sill because the tail hangs up on it, the boat teeters, and then into the soup you go.
Sometimes this can be avoided by trying to bring the keel parallel to the sill and “hopping” off to one side over the sill while bracing with the paddle on the upstream side (rarely works, trust me) but I found it faster, easier and safer to bite the bullet and go ashore so I can lower the boat over logs, low spillways, etc. using a strong line instead.
The Russian River is fairly close to me, and you’d be amazed at the number of people out on that water who rent canoes and haven’t the slightest idea which way is up. I’ve seen people trying to steer the boat from the front seat (as if it were a car), and putting their five-year-old in the back seat. Then they wonder why they keep crashing.
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fromvikingstock says:
70.2.1.2.1
June 25, 2009 at 8:17 am
Click to Edit@Pennsyltucky9:
You live about an hour north of San Francisco, near the canoeing sites on the Russian River? Stay home in October, because I coming out to see you. I’ll have the LongBoat on my car and we’ll dip it a creek somewhere. I would love to get back into that tidal thing again. I had a flat bottomed lake kayak in Florida and I would ride the outgoing tide up the inland waterway from Lake Worth to Palm Beach Island at night and then ride the incoming tide back down the waterway the next morning. I miss the tidal flows. Everything in Michigan is one-way current. We should start a new forum on this stuff. Maybe other people are into it. Things are back to normal now with the water level around here so I’m back to playing tennis and lifting weights but the canoe is hanging in the garage, and I’m never more than twenty minutes from launching if something comes up, so there will be more occasions soon for canoeing videos and more stories to tell. Here is a photo I took on my birthday in 2007 (Thanksgiving Day) from my canoe on Mill Creek.
http://twitpic.com/8diphI’ll start a River Sports Forum now.
–FVS–
Posted 4 months ago # -
pennsyltucky9
MemberYou're welcome to visit, FVS. The weather in October is usually gorgeous, unless there's a heat wave or the whole state catches fire (yes, that sometimes happens) but here's a caveat:
Flow levels get pretty low on the Russian River by October because
1.) Usually there's been no rain since April, and
2.) The water gets impounded in several temporary ponds (called check-dams) distributed along the graded channel, which the municipal water agency uses as local reservoirs to serve all the downstream towns.
This means some of the shallower riffles can be a bit rough on the hull when heading downstream, but conversely, with the low flow comes easier upstream progress for those of us who prefer not to use two cars.
Sometimes I hop out and wade up a riffle to the pool above while pulling the boat behind me, and other times I can be seen "poling" my way upstream with the paddle in the shallows near the bank.
Obviously, these measures are only necessary when I'm getting tired of fighting the current or the water's too shallow to get a strong paddle-stroke. Either way, going upstream represents a pretty vigorous workout with a lot of challenges, even under mild conditions.
People think I'm nuts because NOBODY goes upstream. They'll drop their jaw to stare at me and ask, "Forget something?" right before crashing into a rock or drifting sideways into a tree.
Maybe I don't travel as many miles on the river as they do, but I easily get about 3-5 times the exercise. I also get to see the views from a different perspective when facing the upstream direction, and I sometimes I find really cool tributaries that few people visit. If you think about it, tributaries in a natural riverbed are almost always hidden from view when you're descending because they usually enter the stream from an acute angle and you can't see them until you've passed them. Even then, you'd have to look back over your shoulder. Nobody even looks upstream.
Is your hull fiberglass? Hard to tell from the photo. If it's a flexible hull like Royalex you're good to go. Fiberglass hulls are subject to bruising, puncture, and abrasion. It's rocky here.
The aluminum rental canoes you see on the Russian River all leak like crazy after their first few runs due to the severe hammering they get at the hands of inexperienced one-time captains. I've been in one before, and we had to pull out every mile or so to empty the boat so it didn't sink. Our feet were soaked like stewed prunes by lunchtime.
I have a Royalex Old Town Camper 16, which seems perfect for the purpose. It weighs only 58 lbs and is absolutely indestructible. I use it the most, and it's a great all-around boat.
For salt marsh creekin,' (really narrow deep-cut channels with super-tight turns) I have a couple little 12-foot Royalex canoes built for solo use. They're nice because the short keel length allows access to really twisty narrow channels that a longer boat would get hung up in. But the short keel means they're slow and require constant paddling to get anywhere so I don't use them out on open water. For that I have the war canoe.
My fiberglass Navarro Loon is a joy to paddle on open water because the stiffness of the shallow V-hull helps it glide forever on a single paddle-stroke thus saving energy, but I seldom put it in flowing water, it's too easy to damage. So I've developed a collection of several boats, each with their separate adaptations for specific uses.
Yeah, I'm truly deranged....
-Kent
Posted 4 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
Member@Pennsyltucky9:
Kent, you are some piece of work. I would say you have a measure of zealotry, maybe even a touch of fanaticism, which marks all interesting people. But deranged? No. That is for white water rafters and snow kayakers. You're just a little eccentric, that's all. Thank you for accepting my presumptuous self-invitation. Maybe I should come out this week-end if the flow is low in October. lol
To answer your question, my hull is fiberglass. I have a 17' Sun River Canoe from Sun Fiberglass in Mannistee, Michigan. Here is a picture of it on my car:
Oh, and the link for the picture in the post above should have been:
Apologies to the 23 people who viewed it and saw no photo.
Anyway, I love my fiberglass canoe -- wouldn't have it any other way. I can lift it up onto my car by myself and the hull takes a lot of abuse. It has ram boxes built into both ends so if I hit something and crack the hull, the leak is contained in a box at the tip of the boat. It doesn't reach the part of the boat I'm in. I've run head-on into rocks several times, as recently as Father's Day. And I've hauled it over rocks and trees with a 200 lb woman aboard. Also on Father's Day. So she takes abuse well -- the boat I mean. lol
I wish my car were as resilient -- I wish my car were fiberglass -- part of the reason I'm so late with this response: I've been running around to junk yards shopping for replacement doors on my Lincoln. You can see the rust by the rocker panels in the picture. Lots of dents too. Maybe I'm disclosing too much about my navigating/driving style. I'm really not that dangerous. Just a little eccentric.
Thanks for feeding this Forum, Pennsyltucky9. Looks like it's just you and me.
And the[thalwegs].Real good live music in the "Deuce" these days. (AnnArbor = A2). Last night I saw Down-the-Line and MacPodz at Top-of-the-Park. Tonight it's Ragbirds and NiteFlight.
http://www.annarborsummerfestival.org/index.php/events/top_of_the_park/
Wish you all could be here.-- FVS --
Posted 4 months ago # -
pennsyltucky9
MemberYeah, well speaking of music, the weekend of Sept. 12-13th is Jazz on the River (formerly the Russian River Jazz Festival) at Vacation Beach in Guernevile, CA. Ticket price for both days starts at $80 if you buy in advance, but the way to see the shows free is to be out in the boat on the water. They can't regulate boat traffic. We bring the umbrellas and rig them over our seats for shade, get there early enough to nab a good spot close to the opposite bank where we typically secure our boats to overhanging tree branches and tie them together into a raft so we won't tip over every time we reach over toward the cooler. It's a blast regardless of who they book to perform, and the sound quality is excellent. Something to consider if you were to plan a visit here.
-Kent
Posted 4 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
MemberI'm programming my Garmin navigator for Guernville.
-- FVS --
Posted 4 months ago # -
pennsyltucky9
MemberOkay, so far we both misspelled the name of the town: GUERNEVILLE. There, I said it.
Usually in the dry season they put up a check-dam right near the west side of the town anyway, so the whole place ponds up pretty nicely. There's a swimming beach and lots of concession stands.
It can get crowded during these shows. Once, we were so tightly surrounded by other boats we had to stay put until the show was over. On another occasion, it was 100 degrees F in the shade, so most people enjoyed the bands from a semi-immersed perspective. Tubes, air mattresses, surfboards, float chairs, you name it. If it's anything like the weather was here today, I'll be wanting a float so I can chill in the water if necessary as well.
Posted 4 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
MemberSounds like a good way to meet ladies.
Article on the front page of today's Ann Arbor News tells how high the water is on the Huron River:
http://www.mlive.com/news/annarbornews/index.ssf?/base/news-33/124617124132790.xml&coll=2
I guess I was lucky to escape with only spider bites.
I'm in for the Russian River Jazz Festival -- no matter how you spell the town.
Posted 4 months ago # -
pennsyltucky9
MemberI almost included a paragraph about rakes (tree trunks or other stationary objects through which the water flows but the boat won't go) in my earlier entry about hazards where I mentioned sweepers and sills, but I edited it out because the entry was already too long.
As you can see, lots of people drown in those situations. They may think nothing bad can happen as long as they stay afloat, but you really have to know your waterway. You also have to give the proper respect to the power of floodwater. It takes you places your normal waterway doesn't go, where there are all kinds of potential land mines to deal with. A lot of times, you can hardly tell where the main current is passing through a wide ponded area, and suddenly you'll start moving faster than you wanted toward an obstacle you really don't want to tangle with, like a line of tree trunks. The water can force a boat sideways up against them, deep-six it, capsize it, crush the hull or bend it in half within seconds.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Evan Owen
MemberI once canoed down the Nooksack River during a hundred year flood in 1991. Placid as a lake where the water was impounded behind I-5; but when I shot the rapids under the bridge, I dang near got swept into a stand of alder saplings on the riverbank.
Posted 4 months ago # -
pennsyltucky9
MemberHere's an un-word entry I found.
1183. Ronnie (rŏ-nē)
a. (n.) While exiting a canoe, when one foot is on the land or dock and the other leg is in the canoe, and both surfaces spread away from each other resulting in the person falling into the water.
example: My uncle pulled a Ronnie.
Posted 4 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
Member@Pennsyltucky9:
Do you know anything about Armstrong Redwoods State Nature Reserve?
http://www.parks.ca.gov/default.asp?page_id=450
I'm looking for a place to camp near Guerneville before/during/after "Jazz on the River".Posted 4 months ago # -
Damiana
Memberthis thread reminds me of days in canada we'd portage from lake to lake with our canoe. good times.
white water kayaking and rafting and snow kayaking are big where i live, but i agree with fromvikingstock.. it's deranged, unless you really know what you're doing. even then.. so unpredictable.
Posted 4 months ago # -
pennsyltucky9
Member@fromvikingstock
Yeah I camped there about six years ago or something like that. As I recall, it's a ways up the mountain on a pretty tiny (often one-lane) road, so don't bring the biggest RV you can find. The camping was sweet, but take care not to step on any banana slugs. They'll take ya deep!
Posted 4 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
Member@Damiana
I love it when a hot lips Gravatar agrees with me
Posted 4 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
Member@Pennsyltucky9
I saw a big fat lady pull a "Ronnie" once from a boat dock on America's Funniest Home Videos. It was hilarious. But this guy has the right idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qh2aKELrTg&feature=fvw
You can't pull a "Ronnie" on grass.....hahahahahahahah
Why do they call it a Ronnie and not a Wet Louie ?
Posted 4 months ago # -
Damiana
Member@fromvikingstock
lol! sweet.
i've pulled a ronnie. my nikon and i got drenched!
i've heard of a wet willie.. but not a wet louis (what is it?).Posted 4 months ago # -
pennsyltucky9
MemberThey forgot some important details in that video.
When the guy steps out of the boat, notice that he pushes himself off from the gunwale while both feet are on the imaginary shore and the boat doesn't move. We all know that's not what happens when it's floating. Look at it again. He would have been in the water right there. Ronnie!
The other thing I noticed is that there was no mention of using the paddle to steady the boat for entry and exit whenever possible. For example, most of the places where I put in aren't very deep.
So I reach over the boat and place my paddle into the water right next to it and plant the end of the blade firmly onto the bottom. Then I hold onto the handle tightly while applying some weight straight down onto it (the shaft is in a vertical orientation).
This has the dual effect of both offering me a more-or-less solid object to brace against so I'm less likely to lose my balance (as opposed to a floating one) and keeping the boat from moving away from me. The paddle anchored to the bottom by my weight traps the boat, immobilizing it. There's no way it can move away from me when I step in. I almost always use this technique for getting in and out of the boat, unless there's some really deep and exceptionally soft mud.
Posted 4 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
Member@Pennsyltucky9
You're the one who should be making the instructional videos. Maybe when I get there in September I can shoot you giving lessons on how to party.
Just uploaded some photos and videos at http://www.flickr.com/...
Some are of Mill Creek
Paul
Posted 4 months ago # -
Damiana
Memberi searched for the definition of "wet louie", but found nothing. thinking it's a colloquialism for a sexual act..
Posted 4 months ago # -
pennsyltucky9
MemberHere's an entry written by Beevee14 on June 2, 2009 and re-posted with permission:
CANOEING! Now your talking! Actually, I live five miles from Miami Whitewater River. Isn't THAT ironic. We would go canoeing at least once a summer, get hammered, get burned, get hurt and talk about it the rest of the year. While you have to give it respect, it is nothing like rafting! Still a few stories, though: My brother and I were in a canoe and we were tore up from the floor up! The river was high so we were running fast. We were by the side and there was an overhanging branch that more or less knocked us out of the canoe. It got sucked under about five feet of water and went under a branch and got STUCK! We could not get it loose. The river was so fast, anything we did wedged it farter. I mean, it was gone. Never seen anything like it. Well, we got everybody together and kind of made it down to the livery so we could ease on out of there. It worked and Morgans Canoe is one canoe shy(I'm sure thay found it when the river went down). My brother is still pissed because he had his one of a kind Led Zeppelin T-shirt that his girlfriend made all of us tied to the canoe! GONE! Definately a sad day, because MINE was tied on there, too. Sad day, indeed
And yes, around here we think Zeppelin is a damn fine group! 
Ahhhh, so many stories, so little time... BTW, It kills me when people say they DON'T like Zeppelin but they DO like rock-n-roll. I'm like 'Damn, have you ever HEARD them?!'
Posted 4 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
Member@Beevee14
Led Zepplin is Rock and Roll.
What do you think of @johncmayer?
I love this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3TLDS7hm8--FVS--
Posted 4 months ago # -
beevee14
MemberThanx P9, I'm surprised you could find that! Was there a post around there about the New River/ whitewater rafting? I thought that one was halfway decent for this forum. Speaking of Ronnies, a story:
We only worked half-days on Saturdays at my work, so about 10 of us planned a boating excursion one Saturday after work. One guy had a houseboat on the Ohio and we met there. Another guy had a 16 foot open bow nearby so he went and got that. Thats when it got fun. We went out on that the rest of the day tubing and drinking. I remember I was on the tube(upriver) and my man was having his way with everybody, knocking them off of the tube. He got me out there and did everything he could, finally putting the "whip" on me, and just going in circles. I was riding it out, then I flipped! I was still moving pretty good, so I heaved it back over. He was slowing down, thinking I was done for, the look on his face... 8O. He finally got me off, but I made him work for it. Then, I get back in the boat and my friend Mike tells me that during my first roll over, There was a boat full of girls cheering me on! Made me feel good for a second.
So. We've been in the sun since noon. Partying on the water and having a good time. We pull into the dock and one idiot goes to jump out and does a Ronnie! Classic, one foot on the dock and the other on the boat and pushed the boat away. He jacked himself up pretty bad. He needed stitches and was pretty banged up. Come Monday morning, that guy called in sick and another guy called in sunburnt! We had been talking about the boat trip all day Saturday, so our boss was not very happy with the whole situation and let us know it!
I also do what P9 says with the canoe handle stabilization technique, and it works very well.
Posted 4 months ago # -
beevee14
MemberHey FVS, whats been happenin'? I like Mayer, but when was the last time he did anything(besides be on TMZ)? I did find that other post. This is from when P9 first became a TA:
We shot the New River gorge one time and it was great! They had some Class V’s that were crazy. It was wierd because you had to go over one of the worlds highest single span bridges to get to the jump off point. When you looked down, the water was about an inch wide! When they show people BASE jumping off a bridge over a river on tv, it is usually here.
The raft behind us got stuck in a hole and were surfing. One of the guys got sucked out and popped up next to us about a 1/4 mile down river. He said he got slammed into the boulder that made the hole and had to walk with his hands along the bottom of the raft untill it kicked him out the side! The people were wigging out. We threw a rope, pulled them out and then pleaded with our guide to let us go back up this eddy so we could slide back over the same hole! We tried, but I dont think his heart was in it and I’m pretty sure he thought we were crazy as we did nothing to make him think otherwise the WHOLE trip. We wanted our moneys worth. We also jumped off of this rock that was at least 20-25 feet in the air. You looked at it from the water and thought, "That ain't shit." Then you get up there and you think, "oh,SHIT!" I did it though. Even went back to do a flip off of it! This site will have you thinking of things you haven’t thought of in a long time…Posted 4 months ago # -
pennsyltucky9
Member@BV14: You're welcome, but I'm kinda partial to the canoe stories. You want rafting stories, you'll just have to [dredge] 'em up y'own dam se'f.
@Paul: Okay, just shoot me then.
Nice photos. What's with the shadow on the floor of the boat? Looks like you're being attacked by a killer [ptarmigan].
Posted 4 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
Member@Kent
I'm not sure what that is on the canoe floor. Might be the extra socks I took along. It was 35 degrees that day.
Compare these two videos:
Mill Creek after the heavy rain:
http://twitvid.io/abTF
Mill Creek today, two weeks later:
http://twitvid.io/ablP
http://twitvid.io/ablO
That's what it takes in Michigan to simulate the tidal action in stream depth you get in coastal areas.Posted 4 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
Member@beevee14
Hey Beeve,
I guess I take it back what I said earlier about whitewater people. If you're into it, there must be room for a level-headed guy in the raft. Nice to hear from you over here on River Sports. I've been so busy having fun lately, I hardly have time to tweet. Trying to get out on a lake today before the week-end crowd fills it up.
About John Mayer, here's what he's done lately:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvrtuAmHHnIWhat have you done to promote Rock and Roll?
-- FVS --
Posted 4 months ago # -
pennsyltucky9
MemberWhat have I done to promote rock and roll?
I play it.
Yesterday we played for over 4 hours. What more devotion to the cause can one expect than sacrificing a perfectly good Saturday to the Muses of rhythm economics, volume dynamics and dissonant harmony development? A rhetorical question, I assure you....
Posted 3 months ago # -
fromvikingstock
Member@pennsyltucky9
I like the way you talk.
When you say 'play' you mean play as in perform or jam with other musicians? Or 'play' as in play mp3s on your ipod? If the former, is there any way I could listen? Or if the latter, maybe you could throw me a link to something you like.Here's one of my recently adopted favorites (not from rock and roll but toe tappin' country):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph49YlxCqi8
"It Happens"
Posted 3 months ago # -
pennsyltucky9
MemberIt was no big deal, Paul. I played an outdoor benefit for some friends, with a trio I've been practicing with for a couple months now. The singer/songwriter invited me to join, and the bass player is also a close friend, so what the hey. The atmosphere is laid back but the pay is minimal to nonexistant, so it goes. I play guitar, do some of the arranging, and try my best not to sing.
Were it not for the kids' voices, the planes flying by overhead, traffic on the rural highway, and the wind blasting directly into the mic, we might have gotten a pretty good recording.
Exposure comes before recognition in the dictionary, and the same applies here as well. We're so underdeveloped we don't EVEN have a facebook page. Lol, I'm convinced they'd love us in Japan, France, Germany or Belgium. But we all have to keep our day jobs. Gotta make a living.
Meanwhile here we sit, trapped in a land with a million unemployed musicians working as waiters, waitresses, and busboys. Life is funny that way.
The livestock seemed to enjoy it, anyway.
Posted 3 months ago #
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