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  1. The world's top discussion moderators have developed successful tools for keeping online miscreants from disrupting conversation. All are rooted in one psychological insight: If you simply ban trolls—kicking them off your board—you nurture their curdled sense of being an oppressed truth-speaker. Instead, the moderators rely on making the comments less prominent.

    Patient Zero here is Slashdot, the tech site that pioneered one elegant way to police trolls: crowdsourcing. Slashdot has an automated system that randomly picks a handful of readers and gives them, for a day or so, the power to describe others' comments with terms like "funny" or "off topic." Those descriptions are translated into a score from -1 to 5. Readers can set their filters so they see only comments with high ratings—and trollery effectively vanishes. One academic study found that the majority of Slashdot readers filter out comments rated 2 or lower. Indeed, the concept of crowd-voting has worked so well that sites as high-traffic as the The New York Times now use it.

    How can you help to tame the comment troll?

    Posted 6 months ago #
  2. beevee14
    Member

    Hey FVS! There has never been a problem with profanity and such here(until recently). There are some opinionated comments and strong words but it remains civil. Sometimes I venture off into politics and the fellas groan and comment accordingly. I try to preface my comments with 'I think' or something akin to that so they know it is my opinion but they still don't like it. That is THE hot button right now and I'm concerned with where our country is going... :oops:almost did it again. This site does a pretty good job policing itself! Look at Culleyholt!His profanity is unacceptable. It does not bother me(I'm grown) but I think M frowns on it.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  3. leonard
    Member

    WELL-come along. Polic(e)y...Comment troll?...the control rest with the LLC of HotForWords...I say blast him with replies...gang together and let the commenter hang alone. COMMENTARY commotion Communication {the word commune} C*o*M*P*a*S*S*i*o*N....thank you, leonard...what is Marinas policy?*****5stars and (be good)

    Posted 6 months ago #
  4. @beevee14:

    You have a very tolerant view. You must have children. I'll try to see it your way while I wait for the wizzards to develop a Stupid Filter for comment streams. I just installed a FireFox add-on called CommentSnob that filters profane and misspelled entries from YouTube comment threads -- too bad it only works on YouTube. Some people say On-Line Commentary is becoming a literary genre. Whether or not that's true, it would be nice to have some relief from the foul remarks and tangled up syntax that goes floating down the commentary canal.

    Thanks for getting the ball rolling on this forum.

    @leonard:

    I like the way you talk.

    Gang together and let the commenter hang alone.

    That evokes an image of a big party raging on a yacht while a Comment Troll goes floating off by himself in lifeboat. I seem to have nautical metaphors in mind these days. I wonder why...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  5. Jeorney
    Member

    It might be a good idea to define a troll

    In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
    Wikipedia

    Sometimes there are those who mistakenly, or deceitfully, associate others with being a troll. This especially happens when discussing controversial or contentious subjects. I’ve seen many people call others trolls just because their world views do not match.

    There is also another type of troll, who will make a post designed to annoy. Then when an angry reply is made, the original post is removed. In this way, the angered replier is made to look like a troll instead.

    While curbing the genuine troll is a good thing, there should be a way to protect the innocent from being maligned. Otherwise freedom of speech will suffer.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  6. @Jeorney:

    Good point.

    How do you deal with the "real" ones?

    Distance yourself from them? Ignore them? Report them to someone who can revoke priviledges? Hope they'll go away? Ridicule them? Change forums to avoid them? All of these can work, but each involves a trade-off. I heard of a better strategy today called "disemvowelment". Instead of viewing the problem as social issue, and getting trapped in the question of whether the person is innocent or not it focuses on the offensive text itself and seeks to remove its power to distract.

    You can read the whole article at Clive Thompson's column in Wired Magazine:
    http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/17-04/st_thompson

    Here is an exerpt from it on the strategy I was referring to:

    "My personal favorite innovation is disemvoweling, a technique pioneered by Teresa Nielsen Hayden, who moderates the discussion threads at the geek-culture blog Boing Boing. Whenever Nielsen Hayden encounters a nasty post—an ad hominem attack, for example—she leaves it up but removes all the vowels: y r fckng sshl, for example. The result is incoherent enough that it's neutered, yet coherent enough that no one can cry censorship. The comment hasn't vanished.

    Best of all, because disemvoweling is visible, it trains the community. "You're teaching the other commenters what the lines are by showing them comments that have stepped over the line," Nielsen Hayden says."

    One thing I like about hfw is the open atmosphere of free discussion that seems to reign here, and if you think I was suggesting any form of restriction on speech, I'm sorry I gave you that impression.

    Thanks for your thoughts and your contribution.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  7. @ Jeorney - Thank you for your kind words. They bear repeating
    "Sometimes there are those who mistakenly, or deceitfully, associate others with being a troll. This especially happens when discussing controversial or contentious subjects. I’ve seen many people call others trolls just because their world views do not match."

    "While curbing the genuine troll is a good thing, there should be a way to protect the innocent from being maligned. Otherwise freedom of speech will suffer."

    As one who is occasionally "thrown under the bus" by Marina, beit for differing opinions over political or social issues; I find your words encouraging. It's a relief to see someone gets it even when Marina and others don't.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  8. Greatest Potential
    Member

    as if we needed a newbie to start lecturing us on how these forums should be conducted.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  9. buzzword
    Member

    i'm cool with fromvikingstock. i welcome any new ideas the dude has to offer. this forum topic for instance, damn good thinking!

    Posted 6 months ago #
  10. Greatest Potential
    Member

    Sure, as long as your banana supply ration isn't reduced but if you get screwed you'll be screaming and pounding your chest with your fists in anger

    Posted 6 months ago #
  11. Jeorney
    Member

    @Cha Cha:
    Thanks! Here's some commiseration: Being thrown under a bus by Marina indicates a passionate nature. You’re a lucky man! Ummm, am I safe?

    @vikingstock
    No need to apologise, I didn’t suggest you were supporting the restriction on freedom of speech. Only, if software is to be used to counter trolls, it could unintentionally restrict non-trolls.

    I think disemvowelment might be useful as a parental control and has its pros and cons. I’ve seen a similar approach that replaces the word regarded as vulgar with a love heart (cute but not so good). Then again, many trolls purposely alter their remarks to beat the word filter, so this could make their job easier. According to the definition of a troll, it will only restrict one avenue for the troll.

    Also, not all swear words are meant as a verbal assault, often they’re just lazy intensifiers. Suppose Marina made a post about why words definitions alter over the years, whether through language use (or the way things are expressed), social manipulation or whatever. Then she gives the etymology of offensive words, whether racial or swear words, to show they were originally harmless. A word filter like disemvowelment would interfere unless it had very good AI.

    On the whole, trolls don’t really bother me if it’s just swearing. Remembering not all People that swear are not necessarily trolls. The only type that does bother me on occasion is the kind that misrepresents you, even subtlety, in some way – The character assassination troll. The Poo Poo Troll is a fearsome beastie. Depending on my mood, I’ll mix humour with my response to them or just be factual.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  12. dsfoto
    Member

    I dont know how Marina deals with the lewd rude and crude comments posted on youtube being a defender of a womans honor I want to reach out and throttle some one I am well known if not infamous for my brash mordant diatribes if I could Id let the creeps have it w/both barrels just waiting for marinas permission

    Posted 6 months ago #
  13. Greatest Potential
    Member

    Sure, just get someone to walk the beat around here and tap on the walls with your nightstick, call for cerfew and soon you'll lose half of your visitors.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  14. Greatest Potential
    Member

    Gee, the New York Times uses it- repectable accurate reporting you can trust.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  15. Captain Jack
    Member

    Regarding how trolls are handled on this site. Well it's up to TAs and I. We work in the background in resolving troll activity. Flat out confronting them tends to work best. It's up to the student body to ignore trolls (don't feed the trolls) and to report troll activity to me or any other TAs.

    Marina asked that we not set any rules as she wants an organic flowing site. The student body helps self police the site. If need be the TAs can step in and keep things in order. Marina is very active in watching her site and also will jump in to help.

    As for the voting system, she tried that with little or no success. It could be the WP plugin we used that just didn't cut the mustard for doing it's job. For now we rely on the current system set up by the TAs. It's working well for now.

    Youtube site is controlled by YouTube and we have little control over it. Marina is not offended by the rude comments. She has thick skin and just ignores them mostly.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  16. star magic
    Member

    TA? explain what that is for who do not know please.
    I think trolls are those who wish to cause harm in a fashion that said board owner is not in compliance with, this is my understanding. Is this correct?

    Posted 3 months ago #
  17. Captain Jack
    Member

    TA=Teacher Assitant

    TROLL
    In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

    From netlingo.com:

    Troll a.k.a. trolling

    Online it originally meant the act of posting a message in a newsgroup that is obviously exaggerating something on a particular topic, hoping to trick a newbie into posting a follow-up article that points out the mistake. In general, to "troll" means to allure, to fish, to entice or to bait. Internet trolls are people who fish for other people's confidence and, once found, exploit it. Trolls vary in nature; here are four types of online trolls:

    * Playtime Trolls: an individual plays a simple, short game. Such trolls are relatively easy to spot because their attack or provocation is fairly blatant, and the persona is fairly two-dimensional.
    * Tactical Trolls: This is where the troller takes the game more seriously, creates a credible persona to gain confidence of others, and provokes strife in a subtle and invidious way.
    * Strategic Trolls: A very serious form of game, involving the production of an overall strategy that can take months or years to develop. It can also involve a number of people acting together in order to invade a list.
    * Domination Trolls: This is where the trollers' strategy extends to the creation and running of apparently bona-fide mailing lists.

    The best defense against trolls is "Don't Feed The Trolls." (DFTT) In other words it's best to ignore them as if they didn't exist. When you respond to a troll, he/she has got you! That's their whole goal, is to get you to respond to their comment. I have found secret websites that trolls use to boast about who's site they are attacking. They EVEN keep SCORE.

    So it's best to just ignore them completely. Blog owners do see their activity but if they say anything then it works against them. They normally just watch. You can always inform the blog owners of their activities and they usually respond that they are aware of them and are watching. They have other techniques at their disposal to deal with them .

    Posted 3 months ago #
  18. leonard
    Member

    Hi all---Is leonard considered a troll?

    Posted 3 months ago #
  19. fglrx
    Member

    I'm also afraid to considered as a troll as I'm new and I write not always correctly - as a non-native with still poor competence to use English. It might seem to look like trolling. My awkwardly builded phrases may really irritate native speakers. Proper usage of collocations and phraseology - that's the most difficult thing in a foreign language.

    English native speakers has really a lot of patience, as they must cope with [zillions] of foreigners who murder the language.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  20. Greatest Potential
    Member

    leonard is leonard

    Posted 3 months ago #
  21. star magic
    Member

    Thanks Captain Jack, good for those who do not know for that to be cleared up.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  22. Venomrock67
    Member

    Decided to post here and ask the ? .... Is Venomrock considered to be a troll? Oh and I accidently Put something on the tag for the cliche forum, didn't mean to do it, but I'm still learning. Today's my first time on Forums, and why don't the emoticons work on here?

    Posted 2 months ago #
  23. Captain Jack
    Member

    Troll activity is not taken lightly here on the HFW site. There is systems in place to deal with such trolls. The system has proven its self many times and seems to be very effective at squelching such activities once they appear on the radar. My goal is to get them identified and removed from the site, all without anyone knowing what is going on so as to not cause a disturbances to the student body. Kind of like what security/bouncers do at clubs.

    My idea of a troll is someone who is causing a continued disturbance to the student body. Basically trying to start a flame war is one example. Insulting students to the point in which generates complaints. Posting pornographic or offensive links or pictures to get students upset. So on and so on.. We have to understand there are many people all over the world visiting this site now. There are even many high profile people here reading our comments. Think about that one for a bit.
    All I ask is for everyone to be on your best acceptable behavior. Notice there is no rules on the HFW site about conduct here. There is a reason for that. Marina doesn't want a restrictive classroom with a million rules to follow. We think you're responsible enough to police yourself. We are not your parents.

    All troll activities are dealt with privately. If any of you seriously think you yourself might be acting like a troll then, you might want to contact me about it. I will let you know if there are any issues.

    So lets work together and make this site a great place to learn from our very dear and sexy teacher. Lets have some fun learning about where the heck these words come from, ok?

    My door is always open if you have any questions or concerns.
    Captain Jack
    LTA

    Posted 2 months ago #
  24. star magic
    Member

    Best thing is have a beer, and say,"cheers!" All works out then...

    Posted 2 months ago #
  25. pennsyltucky9
    Member

    Would whoever stole it please return CaptainJack's door? Thank you.

    As the "new kid" TA, I'd appreciate more people looking out for troll activity and reporting it either to myself, Capman 911 (Mike), PedanticKarl, or the good Captain himself.

    We try, but often we can't read everything ever posted on here. There are just too many replies to monitor, and some are bound to slip through undetected. It takes more people watching than just we four TAs to really see everything going on from one moment to the next.

    Anyone who reads this may consider themselves hereby deputized.

    By virtue of your being a student sharing a classroom, keep in mind that you are always empowered to participate in welcoming new members and maintaining the peace and conviviality of HFW. Wouldn't it be a boring place if we all had the same thoughts and opinions all the time?

    Just remember that our best way of creating a lively community of diverse individuals is to SEEK OUT THE SIMILARITIES we share with others and learn to ignore their differences if we can't figure out a way to celebrate them. No one person is identical to anyone else here, so exercise kindness and patience with your fellows, and be gentle if you try to offer guidance. If you wonder whether your posts are a problem, then make it a habit to re-read your comment and think about all the ways it might be misinterpreted before you hit the "submit" button. Don't post it until it's right, and NEVER react out of anger. When there's trouble, let us know instead of taking it upon yourself to fix it on the spot. That's why we're here.

    In this way we are free to learn much more from each other, and since we are already here to learn, there's no limit to our personal growth benefits as long as we keep smiling, paying attention, and making our best effort to be genuinely helpful.

    Thanks to FromVikingStock Paul for generating this forum, and to all who have so thoughtfully provided their honest and well-spoken insights.

    -Kent

    Posted 2 months ago #
  26. Captain Jack
    Member

    If you wonder whether your posts are a problem, then make it a habit to re-read your comment and think about all the ways it might be misinterpreted before you hit the "submit" button. Don't post it until it's right, and NEVER react out of anger. When there's trouble, let us know instead of taking it upon yourself to fix it on the spot. That's why we're here.

    Well said Kent!

    Posted 2 months ago #
  27. pat haskett
    Member

    I've only been on a computer for about a year, and always wondered what "troll" meant. I'm developing my own slang and calling them "blog bullies"! Now I need to learn what a "tag" is plus a lot of other stuff. Sorry I'm like twenty years behind! It's kind of cool that I found this forum because I think I've noticed a little "trolling" activity lately. It doesn't bother me but I see some of my favorite friends get upset and that's no fun. This is actually the first site I subscribed to, found it by accident, and have followed every day since. I go by the rule to be careful what you write, it may come back to haunt you. And I've had to learn that lesson a couple of times.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  28. Capman911
    Member

    @Pat Haskett. Regarding tags, if you look at the very top of the page you will see the word Tag. It is a keyword or term associated with or assigned to a piece of information such as the forum we are on now. Tags are chosen informally and personally by the forum's creator or added to by its viewers or commenters.
    Blog Bullies is a good one that you came up with. I like that one. It's like you said if you fight back you don't know what kind of person is on the other end of the key board and what they may be capable of doing. Yes there has been some of the above mentioned going on, but hopefully it is under control. Problems like trolls pop up every now and then it's just inevitable. Just like that was said earlier above DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  29. Captain Jack
    Member

    Pat Haskett, Tags are also used to help find data faster. They tend to rank higher in searches. They are also used for images to help search engines for they can't see photos very well as of yet.

    Blog bullies is a good term. Trolls is something the internet community came up with years ago.

    Yes, it's important that what you say on the internet can be searched by google. Even if it's deleted here it may exist somewhere else on a database.

    By the way, welcome to hotforwords.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  30. leonard
    Member

    Shakira - Did It Again And again; I think, taking on the problem initialy with a blogger; opens reasoning early: neglecting the situation, (TROLLS) makes for furthering what was why!...That is just my opinion and sharing the art of mankind for good human nature.....thanks for this inter-reaction

    starve the trolls

    Posted 1 week ago #

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