Captain Jack
Member
originalistrick, I wasn't referring to YT directly regarding the site, hello! My reference to YT was the thumbnails. I think it's not fair of me to expect that anyone can understand marketing techniques that I have learned over the years of why things are the way they are with ads.
I wonder if you have ever seen ads in movies and tv shows yet? Im not talking about commercial breaks either.
Captain Jack
Member
Well I looked at my stats on my YT crap movies I uploaded months ago. I discovered in the past two to three weeks my view counts have quadrupled. The algorithm has really changed for sure. I think it was created for crap videos like I have to get noticed a bit more. None of my videos were ever featured and yet my zero or one view a day spiked up to like 40 - 80 views a day.
originalistrick
Member
Captain Jack, please excuse my glaring lack of intelligence and sophistication, both of which you clearly possess in great abundance,for you see, down here in The Lone Star State we still gather up the brood and sit around our radios to listen to the Opry. And so nice to learn of your vast knowledge of "marketing techniques". I reckon I could refer to, say, the single greastest impact J.S Bach's music had on the Baroque period, since I have a background in that area, but that would be pompous, I believe. Lighten up. So we disagree on something. Big deal.
Captain Jack
Member
originalistrick, I have to apologizes for my rudeness. 
Sorry about that. Hope you forgive me.
pedanticKarl
Member
Marina,
Your "Several" video is on the Popular pages and has been since last night, Feb 18 at 9:19 PM and started at position 92. The video moved up to position 81 and is now at position 84. This is the longest consecutive hours that any of your videos has been up since I started monitoring the Popular board on Feb 3. The video is still on there right now.
Here is what it looks like graphically
Each cell represents a a data snapshot of the Popular pages which is taken at 30 minute intervals. Counting two bars would represent an hour, so the whole graph is about eight and a half hours. The bar is your views with the scale at the right.
The green line represents all of the 100 videos views at the moment of the data snapshot. The scale is to the left.
The orange line is your position. The scale is to the right. (divide by 1000)
In other words, 80,000 is position 80.
Notice between 4:50 AM and 5:20 AM the big jump in YT100 views. People are waking up and watching. Notice that your position went up from 81 to 84. My presumption is that your videos did not accelerate as much as the YT100? We want the position to go down towards position 1, on page 1.
Notice the relatively low clicks of 835 (1.1% of views) all coming from the HFW site. Compared against script girls larger numbers. More about that later. So, the clicks appear to be relevant in certain cases? (more work for me to do)
What is significant is the number of ratings. 554
HFW "Several" video
Views: 73,132
Ratings: 554
Favorited: 84 times
Comments: 840 (87 Views To Comments)
Clicks: 835 http://www.hotforwords.com/2009/02/17/several/
More work for me to do ahead..... 
Hs4Mm
Member
Slightly re-written version (especially last para) of what I wrote as a comment for "Several":
Fundamentally, it is up to Google to come up with the right algorithm that reflects what really is "popular" and what really is "most viewed". If Google makes a mistake in their algorithm and starts reporting meaningless videos as being "popular" and/or "most viewed" then the proper thing to do is to point out the error to Google; it would be wrong to blindly accept whatever algorithm Google conjures up and attempt to score on that algorithm.
Moreover, I know for sure (a 100% sure - not as an inference, but as a fact) that Google frequently (e.g., about every 4 months) changes the algorithm that governs the order in which hits are shown to the user at their main search site (www.google.com). So it is likely that Google will keep tweaking the algorithm used at YouTube to report "popular" and "most viewed". This would mean that it is more important to give feedback to Google to show that their algorithm is outputting crap (or is outputting the gold-standard) than it is to blindly try to this and that to score high on any existing, erroneous algorithm.
Getting Google to invent the correct algorithm to reflect facts (reflect what is really popular and what is really most-viewed) is a solid, achievable goal. As is getting them to make Most-Viewed the default tab. Trying to blindly adapt to whatever their algorithm is for the current few months is futile and will just make one crazy.
Blindly accepting any algorithm Google puts up and attempting to score on it is bad.
It is primarily Google’s responsibility to invent the right algorithm. And it is in the users’ best interest to give them feedback on how their current algorithm is doing.
Also, the essential focus on making a good product should not be lost in the attempt to get Google to do the right thing. What helped Google rise is the essentially excellent search algorithm they came up with and implemented; if now Google insists on using a bad algorithm, then the same mechanism that caused their rise will now cause their failure -- and people will host their videos at someone else's saner site.
originalistrick
Member
Captain Jack,
All is well, mi amigo. It was, and so it shall remain.
pedanticKarl
Member
YouTube has been tweaking their site in general and the specifically the Popular pages. Look at this screen shot of the YT Popular page 5.
What three things jump out at you, presuming you've seen these pages a lot.
YT page5 Feb 20 - 6:50 PM PT
1. The menu links below the word Videos now starts with "Rising Videos", then "Popular" which is still the default. The Popular link used to be first.
2. The page numbers no longer have the link underlines.
3. There are only 8 videos on the last page 5, where normally there are 20 videos.
Is the YT algorithm broken? I can't believe they couldn't find twelve more video to tack on there. The diminished page 5 count started on Feb 18 (2 days ago).
I think the Popular board isn't ready for prime time.
pedanticKarl
Member
As I've mentioned before, YouTube's Popular pages are broken in the way that videos are picked. There is a user "WERJP", who uploads short Bollywood soft porn clips with titles like, "Wife Having Sex With Neighbour". That video was on the Popular board for 1-1/2 hours before YT pulled the video for Terms of Use Violation.
What's aggravating about that video is that that video
met none of the notions of popularity.
Rating was low at 3.5; HFW videos are ALL 4.5 or better.
Views was 38813. HFW videos don't get on the board until after 50,000 views.
Clicks are under 100. HFW's clicks start off in the 300-700 range and exceed 1,000.
Comments are very low, HFW comments are consistent with the notion of Popularity.
YouTube needs to get their act together.
pedanticKarl
Member
Totally amazing, Fred is #1 on the Popular board. At this moment, (Feb 21 4:26 AM PT), he has 55 Honors, many of the #1. With 749,040 views, 17,998 comments, 16,573 ratings, and favorited 13,503 times, but lacks in clicks as he only has 436 clicks.
Maybe placing HotForWords pictures and Guess The Words Games on lunch boxes will get the younger demographics to come over here.
Captain Jack
Member
PK, I find it interesting you recorded data. It seem that YT algorithm does not responded to spikes. I think you discovered an important key. Any attempt to rapidly boost views will not boost popularity.
I think WERJP is just a wild card / anomaly to corrupt your data. It's an old trick I have seen before, though I'm not positive this is the case.
I like that your doing the tracking and making the graphs. It's a great help in visualizing the data. Thanks!!!!!! 
Captain Jack
Member
Pk, I have tracked fred on tube mogul and he skyrocketing. I think part of his popularity is he is 100% entertainment that has a funny flair to him. He appeals to the masses.
I don't think M will ever get the younger demos. Marina is teaching a subject that is not as popular as comedy. I see Marina's business model peaked out. They only way to excels in popularity is to changes the format on how she teaches.
pedanticKarl
Member
Here are just some of the things that drive me nuts and indicate that YT isn't playing with a full deck of cards.
In this raw data screen, the "Several of Me" video came on to the board
on the evening of Feb 18 at 21:19 and was on there contiguously until the break at 7:20 the next morning. Two+ hours later, the video appeared again. This is common to all videos and not just HotForWord's videos.
The video stayed on contiguously until the evening of Feb 19 at 21:43 when the "Several" video disappeared and the "Meh" video came on to the board. Notice that that video was published two months ago. WTF? Clearly YT is messing with stuff. Also, look at the YT views in the 3rd column. They clearly substituted other older videos and placed them on to the board for about 30 minutes or less.
The "Several" video continues to be on the board contiguously until Feb 20, 20:56.
They took the "Several" video off of the board, and added the "Drive thru Wedding" video, which stayed on the board for about 3+ hours, then that video was swapped again with the "Several" video, which only stayed 2+ more hours.
Now, here is what drives me nuts.
The "Several" video, even though it has some very good stats that indicate that it should have been on the board, albeit at a higher position, the "Drive thru Wedding" video screams with popularity and should easily have been placed much higher than it did.
The "Several" video has 12 Honors, all above position #30, with 1,279 clicks.
The "Wedding" video has 37 Honors, many ranked in the top 5, with 1,339 clicks.
Clearly, when videos with low views counts and low stats get positioned up higher on the board, and HotForWords, only gets into the 80's position, something is clearly wrong. Also, there had not been a HotForWords video on the board since the "Grammy " video on Feb 9. (about 9 days) I think there is something fishy going on in San Bruno.
Greatest Potential
Member
Sounds like going to Vegas to test out your strategy at the tables. Could you change that deck please? Then ask the blackjack dealer to crack open a fresh pack of cards, if that doesn't do you change dealer, change tables, change game, change casinos... and the one I like- open your own casino and let everyone else play by "your" house rules.
Captain Jack
Member
PK,Well it's pretty oblivious that YT found away to keep people from gaming the servers. They also found away to take the top YT producers and mix them up with the rest of the herd.
GP Yea it looks like something a Vegas casino would do.
mountainboy32
Member
Marina with the amount of channel views you hold you should have [clout]. I seen a youtube girl with ten million channel views she was lame. I think your assistants or some of your people should get intouch with Ceo of Youtube to have a program for people with your amount of channel views to be able to be on display when ever. If you can't change the rule no worries you have already made a huge name for your self. I don't thing you need to worry anyways.
pedanticKarl
Member
Update:
Regarding my last posting about the "Meh!" video above.
Observation:
From about Feb 18 to about Feb 22, YouTube was making a lot of changes and the event that I mentioned in the previous post may have been a test by YouTube to either test their algorithm or it served some other function.
Refer to the following image.
On Feb 19, 9:43 PM, YT removed all of the videos except 40 videos in the middle and replaced them with videos that were published 2 months prior to Feb 19. Interestingly, the videos that they temporarily added, were of the same users that had been on the board recently, or were on the board at that time. For example, the HFW video "Several of Me" was replaced with the two month old HFW "Meh!" video, but at a different position. This test only lasted 30 minutes.
No two month old video had ever been placed on the Popular board before, so this was out of the ordinary. The oldest video to date that has been placed on the Popular board is a three month old video.
What is interesting is that I had suspicions about the Popular board using, what I would call "banding", or some kind of separation, or segregation. Why have all of the HFW videos landed in the 80s (page 5) and other videos with very low views and hardly any popularity indications end up on page 2 or 3. I suspect that these 3 bands as shown in the image below, hold some clue.
I see that the "Rising" video link is no longer the first link and it has been placed back in the pull down menu. The Popular link is back to being the first link which is also the defaulted videos pages.
originalistrick
Member
I surely wish I could get paid to jack around with things just for the sake of jacking around with things. Does anyone have a concrete idea exactly what the YT people think they are going to accomplish? Shouldn't "Most Viewed" mean "Most Popular"? Seems to me they're searching for an answer to a question that was never asked.
HotForWords
Key Master
Most Popular is VERY, HEAVILY weighted with the percentage of your video views coming from being embedded in external websites. That's how videos with 10k views and 4k clicks from an external website can be on the #1 most popular page. Videos that get most of their views from YouTube are punished and don't show at all.
Does that seem fair?
leonard
Member
So here is my " better to ask a dumb question, than to make a 'stupid' mistake"...Does one have to watch(play) thee entire video, to count as veiw?...how does that work with "clicks"...all in regards to the 'most popular page'. Embedded; is is the key answer, to my ascertainment. Punished and weighted by the factors of mass media. Thanks to all.
originalistrick
Member
Marina,
So, recognizing that, what can their goal be in rigging things in this manner? Do they expect to reap some financial benefit by doing this? And if so, could such a back-door benefit really bring them more money than you bring to the table? It just seems like it would be totally counterproductive to them - to create a situation where an extremely popular and successful site such as yours could be at risk of suffering a loss of revenue - THEIR revenue, as well as yours - over a concept that seems unproven at best and, most probably (to me) utterly stupid. In a way it's almost as if they're removing some of the incentive to take a chance, make a financial commitment, and bust one's butt to make it successful, all of which you have obviously done.
I guess I must be the stupid one. Anyway, love you, appreciate you, and will always be your fan and admirer. It'll all work out.
Always.
Greatest Potential
Member
originalistrick
Member
FAIR? If I were a honcho at YT I'd be raising hell about someone jeopardizing my ad revenue from a site such as HotFor Words.
Of course it isn't fair.
logischabbaubar
Member
From Google's point of view, Youtube's "Most popular"-ranking makes sense. Google's web search engine has beaten its competitors with an algorithm that regards recognition of a webpage.
Youtube isn't profitable enough. Google managers have repeatedly said that making Youtube profitable is their top priority. Expect Google to modify http://www.youtube.com even further in order to offer Youtube's visitors better content than currently in order to attract more people than now.
Hs4Mm
Member
Just to provide some links to logischabbaubar's remark:
... algorithm that regards recognition of a webpage ...
Google's official statement on PageRank Technology and their official guidelines.
An article about someone suing Google over the ranking of their site.
Googling for a string such as "google recognition ranking pagerank search algorithm" brings up links to several people's fancy-looking, formula-based, experiment-based guesses of what they think Google's algorithm does.
YouTube used to promote an internal, "youtube-community" sort of idea wherein having people watch your videos from within YouTube itself was considered good. As of today, Google appears to care more about getting your videos watched from external sites -- and I suppose they would give more weight to some external sites (perhaps major TV networks (ESPN etc.), the official Oscar site, microsoft, ibm, yahoo etc.) than to other external sites.
pedanticKarl
Member
Marina, WOW!!! You broke the mold! Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first time that you tried the Comedy category? (ref: FTW video)
I think 99% has been Entertainment, and I think early on you were in Education category if I remember.
For the FTW video, you got on the Popular board on Mar 1, 11 PM (+/-)
at position #64. Right now you are on Popular p3, #57, and you may be
hitting page 1.
One of the site linking to your video is from Switzerland (CH) and there is an article in German on the magazine "Blick Am Abend" (Glance at Night)
http://www.blick.ch/blickamabend/whatsup/so-sollte-fruehenglisch-sein-113247
Here are the 5 top Honors (69) on Mar 2, 5:24 AM, PST for FTW video.
----------------------------------------------------------------
#1 - Most Viewed (This Week) - Comedy - Czech Republic
#1 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Czech Republic
#1 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - France
#1 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Germany
#1 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Mexico
#1 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Netherlands
#1 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - New Zealand
#1 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Sweden
#2 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy
#2 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Australia
#2 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Canada
#2 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Israel
#2 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - South Korea
#2 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - United Kingdom
#2 - Most Viewed (Today) - Czech Republic
#3 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Brazil
#3 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Poland
#4 - Most Discussed (Today) - Comedy
#4 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - India
#4 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Ireland
#5 - Most Viewed (Today) - Canada
#5 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Hong Kong
#5 - Most Viewed (Today) - Comedy - Italy
#5 - Most Viewed (Today) - New Zealand
Views: 82,504
Ratings: 654
Comments: 1,629
Favorited: 140 times
Clicks 1,359 http://www.hotforwords.com/2009/02/28/ftw/
PopUrls was one of the top 5 clicks.
Your "Sexy" video is on the front page of Popurls.
HotForWords
Key Master
Thanks for the info. I thought I would try comdey to see if it made a difference. Not sure if it did.
Hs4Mm
Member
A 3:43 min long video, 5 hours after upload has 246 views -- but guess where it is on YouTube's Worldwide <b><i>Most Viewed</i></b> page (see image below)?
By what meaning of "most viewed" did this happen?
Is that possible under YouTube's stated policies? If not, is there some employee in YouTube who is hacking the youtube/browse page?
Chemikal
Member
There are synchronization problems between YouTube's servers. That means that if you see a video like that having a small number a views, you can bet it's view count is bugged. I said this before, YT stores videos, comments, ratings, view counts, all on different servers.
There are times when things don't work as they should, and for this you only need to wait in order to get back on track.
Or do you think it's possible that the "popular" algorithm is screwed up, and allows for exceptions?
HotForWords
Key Master
YouTube is trying to display more accurate view counts by removing spamming counts or manipulated counts and the result it that it is taking up a day for the actual amount of counts to show up, that's how sxephil can have a video on the most viewed page with only 253 views. He really has 100,000 or so views, they just don't show up yet.
They say that they are working to fix the problem.
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